tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6507235926229522907.post347597936141372635..comments2023-09-28T06:26:33.123-06:00Comments on Sacred Space--God With Us!: Shalom and Stevie WonderGreat Googly Moogly!http://www.blogger.com/profile/13348645248449285718noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6507235926229522907.post-42675399350235315552008-07-29T09:18:00.000-06:002008-07-29T09:18:00.000-06:00What amazes me the most, however, is how God could...What amazes me the most, however, is how God could have conceived of all of this. I mean…from our perspective we can at least come to some comprehension of the biblical idea of “true” humanity (and our share in it) as only existing in the “true” Man (Jesus Christ). Over and over again in the Bible we are presented with the concept of Jesus as the One who recovers humanity AS the "true Man", the second Adam. We know that He wasn’t called the second Adam simply because He accomplished what Adam failed to do; Jesus is the fountainhead of a new humanity even as He brings the "New Creation" to life in Himself. <BR/><BR/>When our eyes are opened by the grace of God, we can see our dilemma as fallen image-bearers and our need for redemption and recovery. We can follow the biblical data that speaks of our “born again” experience as a transformation from “death” to “life”, from the “old man” to the “new man”, from “corruptible” to “incorruptible”, etc. These are all ideas associated with the New Creation in Christ. Not only is our “image-bearing” recovered in Christ—it’s made perfect. By the presence of the indwelling Spirit, we are being conformed to the likeness of the True Man—we are becoming authentic human beings who naturally testify of God by our very nature (as Jesus Himself did). We are not made “perfect” apart from Christ because we are not fully human apart from Him. And these things we can “get”; we can at least comprehend them, if not understand it all fully.<BR/><BR/>But what I still can’t get my arms around is God’s perspective on all this. How could he have conceived of creating Man in His image with the purpose and meaning of Man only being realized in union with Christ? We know that the creation of Man wasn’t a “mistake”. The Bible speaks clearly that the goal and purpose of God is always in His mind and that He is always working to fulfill His purpose. The Bible is the record of God fulfilling His purpose in salvation history. His purpose from the beginning was that Man would only be perfected, would only be authentically “Man” IN CHRIST! I just can’t fathom that idea…from God’s perspective!<BR/><BR/>Think about it: upon His incarnation, the second Person of the Trinity has become FOREVER the God-Man! And this was the plan of God from the beginning! If nothing else would ever humble us, this certainly should: that the second Person of the Trinity would have to become human in order for His image-bearers to realize their true humanity. The incarnation of Christ speaks to so much more than simply our redemption from sin. The coming of Christ is the fulfillment of the Scripture that in Him God will recover all things and restore Shalom in a Cosmic redemption. We are a part of the New Creation now—in Christ.Great Googly Moogly!https://www.blogger.com/profile/13348645248449285718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6507235926229522907.post-1162188113000419372008-07-29T09:15:00.000-06:002008-07-29T09:15:00.000-06:00Thanks kingpin,I agree with your analysis of our s...Thanks kingpin,<BR/><BR/>I agree with your analysis of our state of being in "maturity" over against Adam and Eve's state of "immaturity". The fact that we who are saved actually do experience (in some way) our own "death, burial and resurrection" in Christ, as well as the experience of the atoning work of Christ, will inevitably cause us to have a level of "perfection" that Adam could not have had prior to the Fall. A human being cannot be "perfect", or authentically human, apart from being joined to Christ.<BR/><BR/>But it's your last comment that I think really gets to the issue of why we're not "fully human" apart from Christ--the presence of the indwelling Spirit of God. As Jesus was the God-Man even at the point of His initial incarnation, it wasn't until the Spirit came upon Him that He began His public ministry with power. Of course, the presence of the Spirit in the life of Christ fulfills the Scriptural testimony concerning the Person of the Servant/Messiah/(true)Israel, etc. But the Spirit's presence also speaks to the fulfillment of the New Covenant and our part in it. It's clear in the Scripture that God would send His Spirit to not only reside with, but to dwell within His people. As the true Man, Christ was indwelt by the Spirit and then, upon His ascension, He sends His Spirit to dwell within those who come to Him by Faith. <BR/><BR/>It's the presence of the Spirit that not only identifies us as God's children, but also makes us to be WHO WE ARE--authentic human beings. It is the Spirit who "transforms" us into authentic human beings because He is continually conforming us to the likeness of Christ. When Christ comes back at the consummation of all things, we don't lose the Spirit; He's forever a part of who we are, as He's forever a part of who Christ is!Great Googly Moogly!https://www.blogger.com/profile/13348645248449285718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6507235926229522907.post-84176621351956518102008-07-28T18:40:00.000-06:002008-07-28T18:40:00.000-06:00Even Adam, though created “good”, was still incomp...<EM>Even Adam, though created “good”, was still incomplete; he was still lacking perfection and needed to be joined to Christ to find his “true” humanity. No person is “complete” or fully human as God intended apart from Christ.</EM> <BR/><BR/>My theory is that human beings that are saved through Christ with the use of compatibilism will eventually have greater spiritual maturity than Adam and Eve did prior to a fall from God. It can be reasoned that those within the culminated Kingdom of God will surpass those first persons in spiritual maturity as well. This would be so because those God saves will have experienced their own sin, death, the atoning work of Christ and his resurrection applied to them, and would be citizens of the culminated Kingdom of God. Persons cannot be created with experience, even if made with a level of initial maturity. Those within the culminated Kingdom of God would not possess the initial inexperience and immaturity of the first persons. <BR/><BR/>Christ as both God and man, being directly led and guided by the Holy Spirit was and is the perfect and incorruptible man.Dr. Russell Norman Murrayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06703130625190233670noreply@blogger.com